Comments on: Politics Matters

By: Mister Guy

Mister Guy — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:08:08 +0000

“Lowering energy taxes or taxes on energy companies won’t always lower prices; it does, however, reduce the overall cost of production and distribution and, in general, should keep costs lower than they would’ve been with higher taxes.”

Except for the FACT that the last time the USA had a Windfall Profits Tax in the 1980s, oil prices went down.

This argument from above is all about ideology IMO. This site is for big business making the maximum amount of profit, period.

By: Sickle

Sickle — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:26:43 +0000

So, by your logic, we should never expect that lowering corporate taxes will ever benefit consumers. That’s interesting.

Peter, if lowering corporate taxes will have no effect on consumer prices (and, by extension, only benefit the company’s significant shareholders), why should we ever lower the corporate tax rate? Why, indeed, should we try to “lower the cost of production and distribution” if it will have no discernible effect other than to increase corporate profits, at the expense of the consumer and the individual taxpayer?

By: Peter Suderman

Peter Suderman — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:18:54 +0000

More often, I’ve argued the reverse: that changing the structure of the tax code so that energy companies pay more in taxes is likely to raise the cost of gas. This seem pretty obvious: If the cost of production goes up, whether because of taxes or because of bad weather, the cost of the product will go up. But either way, if Congress wants to “do something” about high gas prices from a domestic economic perspective, the solution should be to find ways to lower the cost of production and distribution. That means stepping out of the way and reducing the clear costs it imposes — in other words, reducing barriers to investment and lowering energy taxes.

By: Sickle

Sickle — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:05:20 +0000

Nowhere that I know ofhave I claimed that lowering gas taxes always and forever reduces pump prices.

I didn’t say you did. You have repeatedly claimed, though, that lowering corporate tax rates (which is what Congress actually did—they did NOT lower the gas tax and I never said they did) would lead to lower consumer prices.

By: Sickle

Sickle — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:04:02 +0000

Gas taxes make up a substantial portion of the price of gas …

We’re not talking about “gas taxes.” We’re talking about $14.5 billion in other tax breaks. Gas taxes were never changed.

it does, however, reduce the overall cost of production and distribution and, in general, should keep costs lower than they would’ve been with higher taxes.

But you have no evidence that it actually did, though, do you? Other than record profits, of course.

Lowering energy taxes or taxes on energy companies won’t always lower prices

So why, Peter, should we believe that drilling for more fuel will lower prices? Why wouldn’t the oil companies just pocket that as profit as well, like they did with the tax breaks?

By: Peter Suderman

Peter Suderman — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:28:08 +0000

Nowhere that I know ofhave I claimed that lowering gas taxes always and forever reduces pump prices. Gas taxes make up a substantial portion of the price of gas (it varies by state and other factors), but there are (obviously) many other factors as well. Lowering energy taxes or taxes on energy companies won’t always lower prices; it does, however, reduce the overall cost of production and distribution and, in general, should keep costs lower than they would’ve been with higher taxes.

By: Sickle

Sickle — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:54:36 +0000

BTW, surely you remember the Energy Policy Act of 2005. You know, the one that gave oil and gas companies $14.5 billion in tax breaks, which the Republican Congress (and your favorite guy, Paul Ryan) said would “spur oil and gas companies to find innovative ways to reduce the nation’s dependence on foreign oil, conserve resources and reduce pollution.” Makes sense, right? According to you, lowering corporate taxes means lower prices for the consumer! That’s what you always say. And it would be “alarmist” to assume that the gas companies would line their pockets with the profits without passing on savings to consumers, right?

Rep. John Kline (who also voted to give the oil companies billions in tax breaks), who’s op-ed is linked from gaspriceprotest, agrees with you too. (One of his top donors is Koch Industries, with whom FreedomWorks is VERY familiar.)

But how did it actually work out?

Let’s see…that bill passed and now the oil and gas companies are posting record profits and gas prices went up!

By: Sickle

Sickle — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:13:59 +0000

Everyone knows arctic drilling is a short-term solution at best, and there’s no real evidence that the bump in supply would lead to any significant drop in prices. Sure it would help, but not much, and for not very long. But that’s what your corporate donors want you to push, hence your little gaspriceprotest website and your photos of brendan bringing signatures to congress so that you can justify all that money the big oil donors use to fill your coffers.

Why not actually have a real discussion?

Does FreedomWorks know what the petroleum burden is for our current military adventure? In 2005 (i.e. before the “surge”), the American military was using 1.7 million gallons of fuel every day. And that was before their vehicles were upgraded with armor, making them less fuel-efficient. The U.S. Department of Defense is currently the single largest petroleum consumer in the world. They purchase 2% of ALL oil purchased worldwide, and 8% of all fuel purchased by the U.S. alone, which is not insignificant. And the amount is only increasing.

Oh, that’s right. FreedomWorks doesn’t talk about Iraq.

Or China, for that matter. All this gas price stuff and nothing on China’s current and projected fuel consumption? Have you done any research about how China uses fuel and the pressure it puts on world oil markets? Same thing in India as well.

Drilling ANWR will only create short-term profits for a few oilmen—it won’t solve the real problem and it won’t help alleviate gas prices in either the short or the long term, because by the time we’re able to get that oil out, oil consumption is going to be far far higher.

Tell the truth, Peter. Ever since I left you’ve started misleading people again.