Floor Roundup
August 4th, 2008 by NSwiftQuick hits from the House floor this morning:
Rep. Tom Price (GA) emceed the event, introducing new speakers. Apparently the revolt was the brainchild of he and Rep. Mike Pence (IN).
Rep. Mike Conaway (TX): reminded listeners that in Speaker Pelosi’s inaugural address she said this would be the open Congress in history, yet an entire debate is being shut down and the will of a vast majority of Americans is not even being considered.
Here’s that speech from Pelosi back in 2007:
“Let us join together … to make this Congress the most honest and open in history. This openness requires respect for every voice in the Congress. As Thomas Jefferson said, ‘Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle.’ My colleagues elected me to be Speaker of the House - the entire House. Respectful of the vision of our Founders, the expectations of our people, and the great challenges we face, we have an obligation to reach beyond partisanship to serve all Americans. “Let us all stand together to move our country forward, seeking common ground for the common good…”
Rep. John Kline (MN): reminded everyone that “We need to increase demand, it’s a supply and demand issue” and said that Americans deserve to have everyone here to debate the issue.
Rep. Mike Pence (IN): said “Since the American people don’t get a vacation from high gas prices - Congress shouldn’t get a five week vacation.” He reemphasized that action now will make a difference in the shortcome - even though new domestic oil comes online in a few years, taking action sends a strong message to the market.
Pence then went on to quote Daniel Webster who’s words are carved in the wall above the Speaker’s chair:
“Let us develop the resources of our land, call forth its powers, build up its institutions, promote all its great interests, and see whether we also in our day and generation may not perform something worthy to be remembered.”
Rep. Tom Price (TX): “Energy independence is the calling of our time.”
Rep. Mike Turner (OH): Told the crowd that in 2004, Rep. Pelosi appealed to then Speaker Hastert to call a special session to deal with the 9/11 Commission Report and the House was called back during recess because it was considered a matter of national security and the pertinent committees held hearings. This is a matter of economic security, of energy security. Turner also mentioned that Dayton, OH was considering not providing busing for high schoolers due to high gas prices.
Rep. Steve King (IA): Said, “We need more energy of all kinds, less energy means shutting down this economy” and “This is a problem we can’t get out of without drilling.”
Rep. Rob Wittman: Made an analogy to Apollo 13 saying when Houston got to work trying to filter the CO2, they looked at everything that would work/help, they didn’t limit their options when faced with an emergency.
Rep. Peter Roskam (IL): referenced the Stamp Act - how it touched every part of the colonial economy and sparked a revolution, much like the current energy crisis. He went on to say that he had driven through the night with his entire family to be there - because this was an important issue he had to speak on. Everyone clapped for them.
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (TX): read some heart-wrenching constituent mail. A family can’t afford to visit their grandparents, others had to make tough choices everyday and forgo family vacations to afford Boy Scout camp for their son, an Eagle Scout. Hensarling quoted Pelosi this weekend who said Republicans need to “use their imagination” but said, “We dream about a great tomorrow, but we have to live here, today.”
Rep. Blackburn (TN): pointed out all the other things this Congress has taken the time to address - monkey bites, national train day - as prices climbed higher and higher.
Rep. Tim Walberg (MI): confided that he had a primary election tomorrow, but felt there was nothing more important for him to be doing but to be here, on the floor, fighting for his constituents. He closed saying, “Speaker Pelosi, let us have a vote.”
Speeches continued, but included in the many, many things you are not allowed to have with you on the floor is lunch.
August 4th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Would someone here with an economics degree actually explain WHY gas prices went up so high? Because I’m looking at the numbers, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why they should have skyrocketed. There was no corresponding drop in supply or increase in demand that would have accounted for the price increase.
In other words, you guys keep saying this is a “supply and demand” issue, but there’s no real data supporting that contention. Add to that the fact that gas prices fell back further than they should have with the corresponding drop in demand. Before you knee-jerk recommend this drilling solution, could somebody please actually explain how we got here to begin with?
Interestingly, we saw these same types of price flunctations while Enron was manipulating energy markets in California and the West. During the California energy crisis, we were told repeatedly that the problem was “supply and demand,” just like now. But in fact, it was later revealed that there was plenty of supply, and that Enron and its subsidiaries had been manipulating the market instead.
Why keep sticking your heads in the sand and saying “drill,” then? you’re supposed to be a “think tank,” but you’re not doing any thinking.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Sickle -
It doesn’t take an economics degree to understand the effect supply and demand have on gas prices. As you may recall from your high school economics class (if you managed to stay awake), the forces of supply and demand play a significant role in the market for any good or service, which includes crude oil.
Yes, demand in the United States is beginning to come down, but current U.S. oil demand still vastly exceeds current domestic production. Americans consume nearly 21 million barrels of oil per day, yet domestic production is barely over 5 million barrels of oil (Source - Energy Information Agency).
You have also failed to recognize (or conveniently ignored) the fact that oil is a global commodity, the price of which is tied to behaviors around the world. So, while U.S. demand is slowly coming down, demand in developing nations such as China and India is skyrocketing. In 2003 alone, China’s demand for oil increased by 11.5% and continues to rise and that country continues to industrialize (Source - Robert Pirog’s 2005 report before Congress on “World Oil Demand and Its Effect on Oil Prices.”)
No one is claiming that drilling will solve the problem in the long term, but increasing domestic supplies of oil will provide some relief from high gas prices until an economically viable alternative can be put into mass production.
I know that it’s much more fun to sit in your basement and dream up all these conspiracy theories rather than actually take the time to learn about the issues. The problem with that is, it takes thinking people less than 5 minutes to find the data to refute your inane ideas.
As an aside, I’ve seen that you post on here fairly frequently and you seem to have a creepy obsession with some of the folks that work at FreedomWorks. Are you a bitter former intern/employee who couldn’t hack it in the real world?
August 5th, 2008 at 9:06 am
[...] Kongress im Urlaub Die Demokraten im Kongress haben das Haus in den bezahlten Urlaub geschickt ohne eine Abstimmung über die Ölförderung zuzulassen. Wohl aus Angst sie könnten verlieren oder wenn sie sich mit der Nichtförderung durchsetzten, dass es sich im November rächt. Trotzdem sitzen sie jetzt in der Patsche, denn Haussprecherin Pelosi konnte zwar Kameras und Mikros ausschalten lassen, aber einige Republikaner welche die Meinung von 75% der Amerikaner teilen, dass jetzt nach Öl gebohrt werden sollte, haben einen “Guerilla-Kongress” gebildet und treffen sich mit Graswurzel-Bewegungen und besorgten Bürger weiterhin im dunklen Gebäude. Ob die Demokraten doch irgendwann einknicken oder im bezahlten Urlaub bleiben (gibt es Spritzuschuss vom Steuerzahler?), bleibt abzuwarten. NEWS here. [...]
August 5th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Nevis, nowhere did I confine my analysis purely to the U.S. My argument addressed the global market for fossil fuels. I didn’t ignore it at all. My argument is the same: there was no drop in supply or sudden increase in demand that explains the sudden spike in oil prices. Period. So explain, please, Nevius, why that price spiked without any corresponding supply or demand changes. Can you do that or not?
Couldn’t have said it better myself. None of these twenty-something so-called conservative “scholars” are in “the real world.” They got shuttled here through conservative activism groups like the leadership institute that are primarily funded by (wait for it) energy companies and their foundations.
Telling the truth isn’t a “conspiracy theory.” Get your head out of the sand.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
So, if you didn’t ignore the global market at all and actually included it in your analysis, I can only come to one of two conclusions: you’re either a complete moron or are simply a dishonest liberal hack. It took me 5 minutes to find the accredited academic research to completely refute your assertion that there was no decrease in demand or increase in supply.
If you’re so much smarter than the so-called conservative “scholars,” then how come you couldn’t provide sources to back up your numbers? Were you not paying attention in high school english class that day?
How about you get out of your momma’s basement and actually go learn something.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Just so we’re clear, you can easily see from a variety of organizations the data on world oil supply and demand, which show oil prices increasing almost 45% from their 2008 low. During the same time period, demand essentially remained stagnant (fluctuating between 86 and 88 mb/d), while world oil supply actually increased.
Please explain how, without a corresponding rise in demand or fall in supply, oil prices increased so much. Can you do it? Didn’t think so.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:08 am
It is becoming tiresome trying to educate you, Sickle.
You claim that there has not been “a corresponding rise in demand or fall in supply.” I have no idea where you get your information, but this statement is flat out wrong and everyone who reads this can see that you are sadly misinformed.
Nearly every single market analyst and energy agency will tell you that the ever increasing demand for oil in China and India is one of the strongest factors driving the price of oil upwards. Now, why do you think this is? Probably because oil is not renewable and, therefore, has a LIMITED SUPPLY.
According to Market Watch, worldwide demand for oil is expected to increase by 47% over the next 20 years largely because of increasing demands for oil in developing nations. Additionally, the International Energy Agency recently said that oil supplies are its “main worry” because of increasing and “very robust demand in China, India and the Middle East” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7702451).
I’d also like to thank you for repeating your argument about no decrease in supply or increase in demand - it reinforces just how out of touch you are.
“If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed.” -Thomas Jefferson
August 6th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Nevius, once again, you’re missing the point. None of those factors explains how oil prices shot up almost 45% in a matter of months. All the things you cited are long term pressures on crude oil prices. None of them explain the sudden, dramatic rise in oil prices during Q1 2008. The current fall in gas prices dovetails nicely with a slight recent supply increase and falling demand, but the initial run on prices does not have any corresponding market activity to explain it. For whatever reason, you do not seem capable of grasping this simple concept, and are instead deflecting attention away from it.
But you’re getting close. One thing that is tied to rising oil prices is a series of recent investments in speculative markets, like oil futures. Speculative investment vehicles have a demonstrated effect on real-world market prices, effecting them regardless of real-time supply and demand. That’s not something that’s well understood by most Americans, and certainly not by the bloggers here, who would like you to believe that market prices are set only based on supply and demand when they’re not.
Do a little more research Nevius. Like Jefferson said, it’s the responsibility of every American to be informed, and you are clearly not informed. Trust me. I investigate things like this for a living.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Sickle - you’re obviously very bad at your job.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:00 am
The conversation is beyond my patience. There comes a point when you realize that some people are just hopeless and it’s a waste of time to try to educate them.
Try reading a little more.
August 9th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“Congress shouldn’t get a five week vacation.”
What about the President…who’s apprently taken the most vacation time in recent history??
“Told the crowd that in 2004, Rep. Pelosi appealed to then Speaker Hastert to call a special session to deal with the 9/11 Commission Report and the House was called back during recess because it was considered a matter of national security and the pertinent committees held hearings.”
Too bad that it took a Democratic Congress to fully implement the 9/11 Commission’s recommendations over 2 years later…
“but current U.S. oil demand still vastly exceeds current domestic production.”
So, is there a worldwide shortage of oil then??
“So, while U.S. demand is slowly coming down, demand in developing nations such as China and India is skyrocketing. In 2003 alone, China’s demand for oil increased by 11.5% and continues to rise and that country continues to industrialize”
China’s recent increase in oil (over 2 years) use went up by less than 1/20th the amount of oil that we use in one year in the USA. India & China don’t have the road infrastructure that the USA does. China can produce a majority of what they consume in terms of oil, and China & India combined have a loooong way to go before they come anywhere near what we consume in the USA. Heck, apparently India (for some strange reason) is exporting more oil than China is right now. The world’s oil supply will have run almost dry before those two countries ever come close to being the oil hog that the USA is right now. China is one of the leading countries in terms of hydro power usage. The USA consumes more oil right now than Japan & most of Europe *combined*, and India & China combined only consume a small fraction of the amount of oil that we do right now.
“Additionally, the International Energy Agency recently said that oil supplies are its ‘main worry’ because of increasing and ‘very robust demand in China, India and the Middle East’”
The 2.45 billion people in China & India used only half as much crude as 301 million Americans last year. The average person in China consumed less than 20% as much energy as the average American in 2005, according to U.S. Energy Department. In India, energy use is less than 10% of America on a per-capita basis.
Do you really think that oil-dry countries like Afghanistan, Cyprus, Djibouti, Lebanon, Mauritania, and Somalia are going to be driving the price & consumption of oil?? Saudi Arabia, Iran, the UAE, Kuwait, Algeria, Libya, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Syria, and Qatar all produce more oil than they consume! Pakistan & Israel combined don’t even consume one 20th the amount of oil that we do! Most of the Middle Eastern countries not only have oil, but they export a huge amount of it…and that’s not going to change anytime soon.
The rest of the world is NOT the main factor behind oil demand, period end of story. Any Right-wing noise to the contrary means absolutely NOTHING…
August 13th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Sickle:
It must be hard to see with your blinders on. No one ever said that the high price of oil hinges solely on supply. Rather, the point is that supply and demand is one of the most significant factors relating to the high price of oil.
I’ve heard the speculation line before - the big, bad speculators are messing with the market in dark, smoke-filled rooms and screwing the rest of us. It may be a good way to scare people into voting liberal, but it has no basis in rational thought. Speculation exists in the market, and in order for it to work, someone has to take the down bet. Thus, some speculators bet that the price of oil would go up and others bet it would go down. They then make or lose money based on what the market does - it’s the same way with any other commodity. It’s interesting that the price of oil started to go down soon after Bush announced that he was lifting the executive ban on offshore drilling and the Saudi’s announced that they were open to increasing production. I wonder if that signal that the supply could be increasing led many investors to bet that the price of oil would start coming down? hmmm….that’s a tricky one. I hope your brain’s not hurting too much.
Just as an aside. Since you seem so interested in the people at FreedomWorks (the level of interest is kinda creepy), why don’t you answer some questions about yourself. I don’t expect that you will, but it’s worth a shot:
1) Are you a Communist? You are, no doubt, aware that the sickle is symbol of Communism.
2) Why are you so fixated on this site? Do you have nothing better to do or are you working for someone?
3) What is your disagreement with free markets?
August 13th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
HEY YOU GUYS CAN I RUN THIS BY;
All of our problems are related to the falling dollar.
The OPEC nations have invested in U.S. real-estate commercial and private previously and now that we have allowed the mortgage industry to go up in flames, taking many international and central banks with them.
Foreign investors got financially damaged and lost trust in our” America’s” ability to manage and provide a somewhat secure investment market; they bailed on us taking the funds with them. Many figured the only way to recover funds was the only leverage they had on us,” OIL!”
So they did just that they proceeded to recover losses in the real-estate market using “OIL” as leverage. And here we are! NOW WHAT DO WE DO?
They are now coming in with foreign monies and buying defaulted, foreclosed and tax leaned properties for nickels on the dollar. Yeah, a double Whammy!!!!
What do we do??
JB#
August 17th, 2008 at 10:10 am
“it has no basis in rational thought.”
People are already being indicted because of illegal market manipualtions…who’s got the blinders on now??
“It’s interesting that the price of oil started to go down soon after Bush announced that he was lifting the executive ban on offshore drilling and the Saudi’s announced that they were open to increasing production.”
Right, because we stopped filling the SPR in July as well, there was a focus on the rapant (and sometimes illegal) oil speculation then, and millions of Americans drove less as a result of high gas prices, which lowered demand during the warm season…instead of raising it like it usually does. This, of course, in your Right-wing mind had nothing to do with oil prices falling…it must have been a purely political move by GWB that had absolutely NO effect on the amount of actually oil drilling that goes on in the USA…sure, sure…
“Are you a Communist? You are, no doubt, aware that the sickle is symbol of Communism.”
Are you an idiot?? Wait, don’t answer that one…I already know the answer…lol… Why do you hate America Sickle?
The falling U.S. Dollar (due to horrible fiscal mismanagement by the Bush Regime) is one of the many, real reasons for high oil prices.